But, a "logo design competition" for a not-for-profit organisation, for identity purposes, is not.
(because: "lawn bowls is not cool").
Before you go claim that the snowboard competition isn't for commercial purpose, think again. They're seeking website traffic and brand recognition from those who enter, and those who vote. See through those all caps headlines and do some critical thinking.
Oh yeah, I forgot - it's ok because "snowboarding is cool!"
Commercially viable graphic designers, like you guys, will not bother considering entering design competitions.
Design competitions voluntarily attract the scum end of the design market. It's perfect for amateurs, and for getting amateur results.
Can't you guys be confident enough in your own abilities to see this?
It's like fucking Adrian Zumbo demanding that a community cake baking competition with a cash prize for the winner be "DECLARED ILLEGAL!". OMG spec work for all the cake bakers who tried to win that competition. Call the police.
No need to call out lower tier opportunities in public. This "shitty" opportunity could be a key step in the journey of a young designer in the making. Well I guess not anymore.
See these things for what they are - and at least be consistent about it.
::A "snowboard graphic design contest" for a FOR-profit organisation, is ok::
No. I don't agree with them but I don't run AIF.
::Oh yeah, I forgot - it's ok because "snowboarding is cool!"::
I'm not that keen on it personally but even if I was, no.
::Commercially viable graphic designers, like you guys, will not bother considering entering design competitions.::
I don't enter "design competitions" as a rule.
::Design competitions voluntarily attract the scum end of the design market. It's perfect for amateurs, and for getting amateur results.::
::Can't you guys be confident enough in your own abilities to see this?::
::No need to call out lower tier opportunities in public. This "shitty" opportunity could be a key step in the journey of a young designer in the making. Well I guess not anymore.::
I think it's a case of horses for courses.
I'm sure there's places on the net for wanna-be designers but I don't think AIF is one of those.
If I were to go onto a forum of professional accountants and say on my first post "Hay. I'm having a tax return competition and the one of you guys that saves me the most money gets paid" then I'm sure I'd be promptly told to "fuck off" and rightly so.
I personally think people have been quite polite and reserved about this.
I (like Looney) sometimes do work for free but that my choice and I don't appreciate being asked to do so as I find it quite offensive.
::See these things for what they are - and at least be consistent about it.::
I am. I don't do spec for any fucker.
::You guys are a bunch of hypocrites.::
I'm not a hypocrite.
Try not to make blanket statements.
Can we stop thinking about ourselves for just one second?
:: I'm sure there's places on the net for wanna-be designers but I don't think AIF is one of those. ::
Since when did this place get so snobby to discriminate against younger, up-and-coming designers?
If we were to guess what place AIF is for, I'd take a stab that it's for all *designers in Australia*. There's no class system in Australian values.
:: I don't appreciate being asked to do [spec work] so as I find it quite offensive.::
Boo hoo - since when was it your right not to be offended? The internet is about openness and freedom of ideas, for ALL.
Spec work has got to be the shittiest way to get quality results. What's worse is when quality people get so caught up in themselves, and deny others not yet on their level, the right to little opportunities that may one day make them just as great.
The only winner isn't always the only entrant who wins the prize. Surely, with all your talent, you understand design as more than just an outcome - but instead a process and journey?
Some junior designers in the making actually enjoy design more than just for the money, and simply need a more than an unrealistic fucking unrealistic university brief to get off their ass to be proactive for.
At the end of the day, spec work is a shitty, non commercially-viable process for all. It's scum, and the bastard who put it out get what they deserve.
But it's still a process that has legitimate value for those at the very beginning of their design journey. If we all just get over ourselves for a little while, hopefully you'll see this.
Thanks for the insult. Never entered the competition and if I could pull it off AIF I would. Couldn't agree more with you @Scotty.
@Noftus I sincerely hope you are a representing the minority of the design community in Australia. Otherwise we're fucked.
:: Some junior designers in the making actually enjoy design more than just for the money, and simply need a more than an unrealistic fucking unrealistic university brief to get off their ass to be proactive for. ::
Sounds like the next generation might need some mentors? Or experienced professionals giving them their opinion and taking a stand on such issues. Young designers could see that spec work is wrong in the eyes of those working in the industry and we could try and eradicate it from the 'beginning of their design journey' bullshit. Maybe on an online forum? If only there was such a thing...
It comes down to motive -
are they doing it for the best logo? obviously not but they may think so.
Are they doing it for the benefit of the design community/young designer to get a legit logo in their portfolio? not really as the opportunity cost is high (hundreds of designers will do the work but won't win)
Are they doing it for the price? $1000 isn't really that cheap these days especially from a designer with no experience - but from an experienced designer it is cheap
Are they doing it for a promotional / social marketing reason? i would hazard a guess that the bowls demographic is a little different to the design demo.
i may have made no sense.
i have no idea why you would do it this way?
btw not for profit has nothing to do with it because 'profits' aren't used for design and marketing, they are a legitimate expense i would hope.
I've worked alongside a lot of "not for profits" in various countries. Many of them have a lot of money.
This I agree with 100%:
::and for getting amateur results.::
Is that what Women's Bowls NSW want? Your website would suggest it is, however I would think it worth your while to ask via your members about anyone within their numbers who can provide professional level work possibly at a good rate.
Relevant story: I've been a member of a soccer club in the Eastern Suburbs Football Association (ESFA) league for around a decade, a manager and committee member in the last few years (before heading overseas). A few years back ESFA sent out an email announcing the launch of their new site (their current one: http://www.esfa.com.au). At the next league meeting, I asked them how much it had cost them, a not for profit run on the fees from small clubs like ours. They said $13,000. I told them I could have built them a much better site for less than half that, but they didn't consult their fee paying clubs members about this beforehand. I would have done it for a lower rate than normal in exchange for a link or banner to my business site perhaps too.
So ask around rather than miss out on your members possible relevant expertise.
::If I were to go onto a forum of professional accountants and say on my first post "Hay. I'm having a tax return competition and the one of you guys that saves me the most money gets paid" then I'm sure I'd be promptly told to "fuck off" and rightly so.::
Since when you include me in a statement like "You guys are a bunch of hypocrites." that's when but I speak for myself, not for others.
::Since when did this place get so snobby to discriminate against younger, up-and-coming designers?::
Members of AIF seem to actively encourage less experienced designers on the whole.
I don't like seeing ANY designer exploited.
I did actually say "wanna-be designers"
::Boo hoo - since when was it your right not to be offended? The internet is about openness and freedom of ideas, for ALL.::
I make reference to when I'm asked in person to work for free.
I've been asked to work for free by charities which sounds fair enough until you think about the person asking may be the Head Of Marketing on a big fat wage.
Don't see them working for free and I'm no charity.
I do however find "Design Competitions" offensive (which is my own personal right to do so) as I feel that they are exploitative and de-value our industry.
just got back from sydney, spent a nice day with an old friend,we drove & walked along the cliffs to bondi and back, about 2 hours, when we got back we had a beer at a bowls club because we were dry as a kangaroos jock strap, we then played, 2 hours of chit chat and fun interspersed with more beer, we paid them, the beer was also not free, they had pokies who's dulcet tones tinkled away in the background sucking up money, they employed many people, i'm pretty sure they all get paid, they sure seemed happy with their lot
if they want to post on a site of professionals about his they can and do, i'm with scotty i'd have binned it, whoever posted it didn't not understand this site
the road they have chosen will give them endless hours of gazing at shite, they should have gone to one of those sites of bidding, you know, $50 for a whole corporate makeover type stuff
i do hope i aint in the hypocrite stuff, i do not agree with unpaid work, whether you be a poncey tattooed designer or a overpaid barmaid